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092: How to Turn a Divorce Setback into an Epic Comeback – Nikki Bruno

Nikki Bruno became a professional coach in 2016, after 15 years in the book-publishing industry. In her core coaching program, The Epic Comeback, she helps women build joyful lives after being sidelined by divorce, domestic abuse, illness, or loss. Nikki holds a bachelor’s degree in anthropology from Princeton University and a master’s degree from the Harvard School of Education. A single mom of two, Nikki loves scuba diving, international travel, and helping women rediscover how incredible they are. Nikki’s work has been featured in Best Self Magazine, Cosmopolitan, Bustle, Glassdoor, and several podcasts, among other media outlets.

In This Episode, You Will Learn:

  • The three pillars of staging an epic comeback.
  • How to reclaim yourself after a divorce.
  • Why cultivating sensuality is so important.
  • How to find freedom and be in charge of your life.

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Interview Transcript

Nikki, thanks so much for taking some time to hang with me today. I really appreciate it.

It’s my honor. I’m really excited, David. Thank you so much for having me.

I know you talk a lot about making a comeback, but in order to have a comeback, there’s got to be a setback. We’ve all had setbacks in life of course, but today we’re talking about relationships and divorce. If you wouldn’t mind, maybe just take a few minutes and share with us about your own relationship journey from marriage and divorce, and how that got you into this whole coaching and conversation.

Absolutely. I love what you said David, about an epic comeback. In order for an epic comeback to happen, the prerequisites of that is you have to have gone through a place where you’re going through really, really, rough stuff. And I did. My short version of my story is that I had a fantastic childhood. I grew up, I was an over-achiever. I went through Princeton and Harvard. The narrative that I told myself about my life was that I was going to meet the man of my dreams, and marry him, and have children, and live happily ever after. Which is a very familiar narrative, I’m sure, to those of you listening.

Yes. Yes.

That for the most part was what happened. I got married in 2006 to the man of my dreams. We had an incredible life together. We had three Ivy League degrees between us. We traveled a lot for the first five years of our marriage. And even after we had, first our son and then our daughter, we continued to travel the world. Went to Japan, went to Europe, all over the place. Both my husband and I owned our own businesses. We were entrepreneurs. So we led a lifestyle that most people considered to be non-traditional, very exciting, sort of jet-setting life. We lived in Boston throughout our marriage and had a wonderful network of friends. Lots of mutual friends. We had a fun social life and traveled up to New Hampshire. Lots of hiking.

I want this marriage. What the heck?

I know. Yeah, I mean anybody from the outside would have said, “These guys have it all.” For a long time, we did. Starting at around year seven of our marriage, more conflict started to happen. And by year nine, I was in a place where I found myself to be miserable in my marriage. It’s best at this point of the story to speak for myself and to say that our dynamic in our relationship had become unhealthy for me. It had become toxic for me.

There were multiple points of disagreement. There was a lot of tension and there was a much higher level of conflict than I was certainly okay with and comfortable with. When that conflict began to happen in front of our children and really for me impact the domestic experience that our kids were having, that was really it for me. My husband and I separated and we went through a three-year long process of separation and divorce that was high conflict, in the sense that I was pro-divorce and my husband was completely against it.

Why was that? Why was he against it?

Why was he against the divorce?

Mm-hm.

Well, I can’t completely speak for him but he did not want to have a divorce. He, and for many reasons, neither did I. He didn’t want that to happen to our family. He did not want that to happen to our children and neither did I. I imagine that I’ll touch on this later but divorce was the last experience that I wrote into the narrative of my life.

Sure, of course.

We disagreed, and he wanted to continue to work at it. He wanted our marriage to work out and I was done. I was finished. So we were not on the same page.

So challenging. So many people. I mean, your story, not to say that it’s not unique because everybody’s story is unique, obviously. But just so painful, right? Just so painful. Because it’s not what you had hoped. Even though you were done, it’s not like you go, “I’m glad things turned out this way.” Of course not. Nobody goes into that thinking that.

No. Nobody goes into that thinking that. And yet divorce happens. People do grow in different directions. I liken marriage to, it can be sort of similar to starting a new job, or to starting college, or starting at a new school, or moving to a new community. You only know so much when you’re getting into it and you can never be completely certain how it’s going to go. I think when it comes to marriage, there are some aspects of marriage that have to do with compatibility and have to do with luck to some extent, and that also have to do with really working at the relationship.

Some of it really just is you aren’t completely sure what you’re getting into, and also, people can change over time. That was heartbreaking to me, speaking for myself. And also extremely difficult, and extremely challenging for my now, former husband. Particularly with a divorce where you’re not on the same page about getting divorced in the first place, and then on top of that there may be issues of conflict about how the divorce is going to go down. Custody issues, and financial issues, and all of the other aspects of separating a family, there are additional types of conflict that can come up.

Of course, of course. So how did you get into coaching people through this divorce process? How did that come? Obviously at some point it’s like, “Hey, it’d be great to help people through this because I’ve been through this.” How did that come up for you?

Yeah. I learned about coaching and decided to make a career change and become a professional coach just at around the time that our marriage was falling apart actually. My intention in becoming a professional coach had nothing to do with divorce and nothing to do with being a life coach. I went to coaching school with the intention and plan of being an executive and leadership coach. Working with leaders who feel isolated in their roles and want to create a culture of collaboration in their organizations.

What happened was, I was toward the end of coaching school and I had just launched my new coaching business. That was when the proverbial stuff hit the fan in my personal life and things started to fall apart. I did not have the financial or energetic bandwidth at that time to get a new business in a new industry off the ground. I had been an entrepreneur, a solo entrepreneur since 2007, and for about ten years I had run a successful editorial services business. I was in the publishing industry. I knew what it took to start a new business and therefore I knew that I didn’t have the bandwidth; the energetic bandwidth or the financial bandwidth.

So I tabled my new business, went through the divorce process, and as I was coming out of it and after I had taken maybe a year to really heal. To kind of put the basic puzzle pieces of my life back together. Making sure that my kids and I had a new place. I was the one who moved out and getting my feet back on the ground. After that time, I reached this turning point where I was ready to stage my own epic comeback. Where I was ready to start working out again, to hire my own business coach and life coach, to get my mojo back. That is when I got the idea of becoming a life coach instead of an executive and leadership coach.

By the way, there aren’t that many differences, because when you’re a coach, you’re dealing with all aspects of a person’s life. Whether you’re helping them with their communication skills or with their intimate relationships. But there are multiple different types of niches within the field of coaching. Due to the very hellish and difficult experience I had gone through, I became really passionate and driven to open a business where I would be helping women go through a similar process. There are so many statistics about how women and children in particular are impacted negatively in very big ways by the divorce process. I recently saw a statistic that sixty percent of Americans who live under the poverty line are divorced women and their children.

My passion for doing this work was very, very much part of my own comeback. My own reclaiming my relationship with myself, reclaiming my relationship with my career, my work, and more. Since I made that decision over a year ago to do this work, I have been more driven, and more motivated, and filled with more joy at the work that I do, which doesn’t feel like work, than I ever have been in my life to this point.

That is so awesome. That is so great. That feels good. That’s good. You talked about this epic comeback, right? You talked about “reclaiming yourself”, I believe is the way that you put it. My wife and I, twelve years ago, I filed for divorce. I was in a really bad place. I was burned out and I wanted to start fresh in life. Made some really poor choices and we ended up six months later reconciling. We’ve been married now almost 26 years but it was the most brutal, brutal, brutal, brutal experience of my life.

I just want people who are listening, either those who are going through divorce, who have gone through divorce, or those who have friends. You either have gone through a divorce or separation or you know somebody who’s gone through a divorce. When I was growing up Nikki, I didn’t know anybody’s parents who were divorced.

Yeah.

Obviously, I’m a little older, I’m 46. Thirty-plus years ago, I grew up in Kentucky, I knew nobody who was divorced. That was like, “Woah.” Now of course, not to say that divorce wasn’t prevalent then, but it’s very prevalent now. Challenges that we go through. You say reclaiming yourself. I want those individuals who are in need of reclaiming themselves or have friends that are in need of reclaiming themselves, what does that mean? What do you mean by that?

In the same way that you said in order for there to be a comeback, there has to be a low. There has to be a period of utter pain and to some extent, trauma. In order to reclaim something, that implies that we’ve lost it. What I have discovered about myself, and by the way, I’m 43. I’m not that much younger than you are. What I’ve discovered about myself is that my greatest fear in life is to lose touch with myself. I call it my sacred relationship with myself. I’ve always had a really strong and important relationship with myself that involves loving myself, respecting myself. Making sure that I have what I need in order to flourish. It’s about also having trust in myself and compassion for myself when I mess up, and a strong sense of identity.

When you go through a divorce, and in particular when you go through a high-conflict divorce where you’ve got enormous sources of disagreement and tension with the person you have probably been most intimate with in your entire life. Had children with this person, shared the good, the bad, and the ugly of who you are. It tears at the fabric of your own impression of yourself. You are questioning. There’s almost at least in my case nothing that I wasn’t questioning myself about.

I was questioning whether I was a good parent. I was questioning whether I was capable of being a good partner, a good wife. I was questioning my judgement. I was questioning my ability to make decisions. Because many of the decisions that I was making were being intensely questioned, and criticized, and attacked by my husband at the time. Also potentially and actually, by some of the other people in my life who didn’t really know the story or who were questioning, who were wondering, “What the heck has happened here, Nikki? What’s going on with you? What’s going on with your family?”

So I was losing that sense of myself as being a good person, being an effective person, being competent in my work. Really there wasn’t anything that wasn’t coming under my own personal microscope. I’ve always been my own harshest critic in addition to having that sacred relationship with myself. That’s what I’m talking about for my program and with my clients, the work that we do is a process of reclamation. There are three different area or what I call pillars of the Epic Comeback framework. And the first one is reclaiming your relationship with yourself, so that you trust yourself again. So that you’re able to follow your intuition. So that you believe that you are a worthy and good person on this planet.

Yeah. Okay, and this sense of losing, you said, really the fabric of your being, being torn apart and questioning all of these different aspects of life. Would you say that a hundred percent of people that go through divorce experience that, or the majority?

You know, that’s something that’s really hard to pull statistics on.

Your clients?

My clients? Absolutely. Because my clients are attracted to the framework that I’ve created for them, and so my clients are coming to me saying things like, “I don’t know who I am anymore.” “I don’t know who I am now.” “What does it mean for me to be a divorcee?” “What does it mean for me to go from spending every single day with my children, to spending only half of my children’s time with them?” “What does it mean now that I have worked inside the home to be forced all of a sudden to work outside the home?” “How in the world am I going to make ends meet?” I would say yes. Again, this isn’t a statistical, scientific answer, but I think it would be near about impossible to come through a high-conflict divorce without questioning who in the world you are in your identity, your very identity.

Sure, that makes sense. You talked about three pillars of this Epic program. It is an epic program

You bet.

Comeback program that you’ve developed. The first one is reclaiming yourself. You’ve talked us through that a little bit. Is there anything you want to add to that pillar?

No, I think we’re good on that pillar.

Okay, so you help women reclaim themselves. Reclaiming their identity, reclaiming themselves as being worthy, as being lovable, and loving. That all makes powerful sense. What’s the second pillar that you’re talking about?

The second pillar is about reclaiming your body. It’s about reclaiming your relationship with your body. There are a lot of health problems; mental health, medical health, physical health, just in general health problems that are closely associated with trauma and closely associated with going through a high-conflict situation including divorce. I could name them right off. From depression, to anxiety, to insomnia, to low self-esteem. Kinds of things that I was talking about before with reclaiming yourself. To auto-immune disorders, dramatic weight loss, dramatic weight gain, diabetes, all different kinds of mental and physical problems that people go through when they are in such a high level of stress and conflict. Chronic fatigue, all sorts of conditions.

And so the second pillar is about reclaiming your relationship with your own body. That includes not only seeing your doctor and making sure that you’re getting physicals, but also, and almost more important, getting into really good physical shape. Paying attention to your nutrition. Paying attention to your energy level. If I could state any shortcut to getting your mojo back and feeling attractive, and feeling sexy, and feeling worthy, and getting back into reclaiming your power in the wake of a high-conflict divorce, any kind of divorce, the shortcut would be get yourself into the best physical shape of your life.

That was the beginning of my epic comeback, in addition to making a decision to start my new business. This was the turning point for my comeback. I looked in the mirror and I said “Nicki, this isn’t funny anymore.” I had gained 30 pounds over my happy weight and I had spent three years not working out, which wasn’t normal for me, and eating comfort food. Basically not having a particularly healthy diet, which also wasn’t normal for me. I was compassionate with myself about having a period of my life where that was going on, and where I was taking care of surviving. Basically, I was in survival mode.

Once I got to the other side of crisis mode, I looked in the mirror and I said, “This isn’t funny anymore and this is going to change.” I contacted a fitness coach who was my friend in elementary school, from way back in the day. I said, “Molly, sock it to me.” She gave me a fitness program. She gave me a nutrition program. I followed those programs to the letter for nine straight months. I got into the best shape of my life.

What happened to me physically and emotionally was very dramatic and very fast. Literally within three days of starting to work out again my body was saying, “Thank you. Thank you for doing this again. Thank you so much. We really needed this.” I stopped taking naps. I became a lot more engaged with playing with my children. A lot more energetic in the way we were spending our day. My energy level went from probably about a three out of ten, to an eight or nine out of ten. I have been flying high ever since.

You seem like a very intense person. I just am like, “You are a kick ass and take names kind of person.” I just feel that. Yet I’m wondering, during this process did that get beaten down? You know what I mean? Did you become more intense, more volatile during this high conflict? Or did you just feel like, “Oh my gosh, this is just the worst,” and you regained that intensity? When I say intensity, I love intensity. I’m a very intense person but it means that you’ve got confidence. You know who you are, you know what you’re all about. Did that shift as well when you began to work out and eat in a different way?

Yes. That shifted too. Yes, I’m an intense person and I’ve always had mojo. I’ve always had chutzpah. If you had met me in the darkest days of the divorce process, you still would’ve been able to sense that. It’s not as if our personalities are completely erased when we go through trauma. I was definitely depressed and anxious through a lot of that period, but I still had the light inside me.

It was a matter of it being a lot dimmer. I was pretty darn high-functioning for most of that time. So it was a matter of my light being dimmer, and it was also a matter of me not experiencing internally the kind of joy — and joy is absolutely the right word for it — that I normally would on a day-to-day basis. I can tell you for a period of about two-and-a-half to three years, when I did experience joy, it was almost invariably involved with parenting. With being with my young children.

I thought you were going to say alcohol for a minute, but okay. Alcohol and parenting together. It was a great combination.

That’s hilarious. No, I didn’t turn to alcohol, I’m glad to say. I can’t really say I’d get all judgmental about somebody who did because it’s just so hard. Yeah, my light was a lot dimmer, and people who know me well would agree and were saying things like that. “Nicki, I want you to be feeling joy again.” And I got there. Part of what helped me get there absolutely was paying attention to my health and physical fitness. All of the ships started rising on that tide.

What also has to be mentioned about reclaiming your body, is reclaiming your sensuality and your sexuality. Reclaiming yourself as a sexual being. I don’t know about the rest of y’all out there who have gone through a divorce, who have especially been married for a long time, when things are tense and things are not going well, you can go years of completely losing touch with yourself as a sexual being. You’re not having any good loving.

And so part of what I’m doing with my clients is, it’s not just about nutrition, it’s not just about fitness, it’s not just about going to get your physicals. It’s also about reclaiming your sexuality and your sensuality, and regaining that knowledge that you are an attractive and beautiful human. It’s not always a process of regaining. It may be a process of discovery in the first place. And exploring parts of yourself that you never really have gotten to know really well.

Ignorant question. I mean, this is so ignorant. How do you do that? How do you help individuals, right? I’m stepping out here on a possible landmine but what does this look like? What are we talking about here, Nikki?

Okay…

Are we talking about getting some Victoria Secret lingerie and taking some boudoir pictures and putting them up in our house? What are we talking about here?

We’re talking about experimentation. We’re talking about having sex with or without a partner. We’re talking about pleasuring yourself. We’re talking about getting back out onto the dating scene, ultimately, in a safe way. We’re talking about doing research. I’m not a big fan of the word self-care but that’s what people understand it to be these days. Going and getting massages. Increasing the amount of times in your day-to-day life where you’re engaging in human touch.

It’s not just about sex. It’s not just about intercourse. That’s one of the reasons why exercise is so important. Because the chemicals that get released when we exercise are the same kinds of chemicals that get released when we’re having sex. They’re the kinds of chemicals that tell you, “I’m a sexual being. I feel good in my own body.” This is where I refer some of my clients to re-invention stylists, to personal stylists. Go get your hair done. Pay some attention to your appearance. Take some baths. It’s not just sexual experimentation and exploration.

Sensual.

It’s sensual experimentation. It’s also research. Read some books. If there are fantasies, let’s say sexual or sensual fantasies that you’ve had or that you’d be open to having, do some reading. There are some incredible books about sexuality, and incredible books about exploring your sexuality and getting in touch with who you are as a sexual being who is worthy of having sensual pleasure.

That’s a big part. I want you to hone in on that. Worthy of having sensual pleasure. How would I not feel worthy of that? Why would I not feel worthy of that?

If you’ve grown up the way that, to be really honest, most girls grow up, not being encouraged to explore their own bodies. Being discouraged from exploring their own bodies and being discouraged from being sexually active. Being discouraged from learning about how to create and bring about sexual and sensual pleasure. Americans relative to many other cultures in the world, are rather prude and rather frigid. To be general, to make a generalization. My bachelor’s degree is in cultural anthropology. I’ve studied a lot of different cultures and I also have been to 60 countries myself, traveling and spending time among people of different cultures.

You’re not saying you’ve had sex in 60 countries, you’re saying you’ve traveled there. I just want to clarify for everybody, okay? Just want to make sure.

Unfortunately, no. That would be a pretty amazing thing to claim, but no. Our attitudes toward sex are cultural in addition to being psychological and social. I invite the women in my program and I invite any woman who I talk to, to open their minds, and open hearts, and open their intuition to exploring themselves sexually.

Okay, let’s move on to pillar number three. So we’ve got I’m reclaiming myself, I’m reclaiming my body. What else do I need to reclaim if I’m coming from a setback to an epic comeback?

Pillar number three, can you guess David? What do you think?

Well, I already know because I’ve looked at your materials. It’s community.

That’s right, yeah. So the third pillar is community. This by the way, this framework that I’m talking about, the Epic Comeback framework, this is the “what” that I do with my clients. There’s another whole framework that is the “how” of how we actually do this. It’s called the Epic Comeback Journey. We won’t have time to go over that one but what I’m saying is, this is part one of my curriculum. I totally geek out on this stuff because I have a Master’s in Education and I’m all about creating a curriculum and creating a framework that we can really grab onto.

It’s about reclaiming your community. Going through a high-conflict divorce, inevitably — I spoke before about tearing at the fabric of yourself, of your very relationship with yourself. High-conflict divorce is also something that impacts your relationships. Obviously not only with your spouse but also with your children, if you have children. With other members of your family, members of your spouse’s family. With your friends, especially if you have a lot of mutual friends. And with your larger community, potentially even your colleagues at work.

Divorce is something that impacts that because it puts people who know you in this awkward position where they’re like, “How do I relate to you now? Am I supposed to pick you? Am I supposed to pick your spouse? How do I handle this?” People don’t necessarily know how to talk to you anymore because you’re going through something that they don’t relate to, or there’s something that’s very awkward to talk about. It’s almost inevitable that you’re going to lose some friends. Pillar number three is about creating a vision for how you want to feel when you’re surrounded by your loved ones.

How do you want to feel in community with other people? Do you want to feel very peaceful and quiet, and held, and loved? Do you want to feel like you’re being stimulated, and challenged, and pushed? Do you want to feel like you’re having a blast, and you’re having fun, and you’re laughing a lot? How do you want to be in community with other people? So I establish a vision, my clients establish a vision, and then we talk about, “Well, who are the people in your life that make you feel that way?”

Deepen your relationships with them. Spend more time with them. Hang out with them. If there are people who make you feel or create an atmosphere where you are not happy, or you’re feeling tense, or you’re feeling anxious, or you’re feeling judged, let those relationships go. Create some new distance where there wasn’t any or you may have to completely end the relationship. It’s really about curating a VIP crew of people who surround you on a day-to-day, week-to-week, month-to-month basis, who are going to help you feel supported and loved unconditionally.

That is not easy. I’m almost going to say that the first two are a cakewalk compared to that last one. I don’t know. You know what I mean? The older you get, the harder relationships are to develop. And now you’re in transition, obviously you’ve got more time. It does seem like an opportunity in the midst of those relationships to be playful with how I see myself or how I feel about my own body. You know what I mean? Those community atmospheres become almost like an experimentation lab, it seems like, with me feeling differently when I’m around those different people. I don’t know, am I making that up?

I don’t think you’re making it up. I know that different people respond to this framework in different ways. For example, when I look at this framework I say, “You know what? I can do the community part and I can do the body part. It’s the self part that’s the hardest.” That requires taking that look in the mirror. There are other people who are going to say, “Oh my gosh, I’m feeling great about my community, and my friends, my family. I’m feeling really good about myself. But oh, this part about my health and my body, I’m in danger. My health is in the toilet and this is going to be really hard for me.”

I’m drowning in potato chips.

“I’m drowning in potato chips. I’m drowning in fatigue. I’m falling asleep. I’m binge-watching Netflix and binge-eating pizza, and I can’t get out of it.”

Yeah. Okay, so basically everybody’s going to have a unique area that they’re challenged with. All three are super challenging. If you are speaking to people who are going through a divorce, going through a separation, what would you want the best-case scenario for them? The ultimate result that you want for somebody, whether they’re working with you or not, what do you want for them in their life as they’re coming out the other side of this?

I want my clients, I want anybody who’s coming out of a high-conflict divorce, but I’m going to talk about my clients because they are my people. I believe in them three thousand percent. What I want for them is what they’re telling me that they want for themselves. Which is, they want freedom. They want freedom. They want to be and feel like they are in charge of their lives. Like they are the main event of their own life. They’re throwing a party and everybody else wants to come, and other people are saying, “I want what she’s having.” I want them to feel joy just about every single day from something. It doesn’t matter what.

I want my clients to feel joy. I want them to be making epic moves in their lives. Whether that means starting a new business. Whether that means creating a vision and a plan for finding a partner who is the partner that they know will be an incredible match for them. I want them to be taking strides, whether it be in their career, their romantic life. Whether they start volunteer work. Whether they start some kind of new project that they’ve always wanted to start. They learn a new instrument. I want my clients to be the architects of their own life. I want them to be using their super-powers. I’m really, big on super-powers.

My greatest super power is that I can spend twenty minutes with somebody, and within that twenty minutes of having a powerful conversation with them. Where I’m asking them open-ended questions, and I’m doing this magic of synthesizing what they’re saying about what brings them joy, about moments when they felt very powerful. I can intuit very quickly, what makes a person I’m with astoundingly, amazingly, awesome. I want my clients to know what their super-powers are. To know what they’re naturally amazing at and what brings them joy. Because if it doesn’t bring you joy, in my book it’s not a super-power. And I want my clients to be in that pocket, to be in that zone of genius as much of their day as humanly possible. Because that is how they’re going to serve themselves, their families, and the universe best.

So good. So good. That’s holistic, what you’re talking about. That’s not just about getting through a divorce, that’s about a whole life epic comeback transformation. So powerful.

It’s not about divorce. That’s the thing. The easiest, fastest way to describe what I do, is that I’m a post-divorce life coach. In that I get what you went through. I get where you are. I get that you’re now co-parenting, or parallel parenting, or whatever relationship you have with your former spouse. I get what you’ve been through and I know it’s really hard.  I also know that the crisis and the trauma are opportunities. They open you up and there are treasures and gifts to be found in that. Anyone who tells you that divorce is all bad, all bad news, all utter hell, and all utter trauma, hasn’t really been there.

They haven’t mined the gold, like you just said. They haven’t found the treasure in it.

There is a treasure. Whether you initiated the divorce or whether your spouse initiated the divorce, there is a treasure in all different types of trauma. I’m not just talking about divorce here. The Epic Comeback framework that I’ve created is based on me geeking out and studying comebacks, epic comebacks of all kinds. From athletic comebacks, to professional, to business, to personal, to spiritual comebacks. People who were at the absolute low and became that phoenix that rose from the ashes.

I will tell you, I have a podcast called the Epic Comeback Podcast, and all of my guests. I’ve interviewed now about 95 women, every single one of them went through some kind of traumatic situation, including divorce, cancer, life-threatening Lyme disease, bankruptcy, all different types of traumatic experiences. Almost every single one of my guests came out on the other side of that experience and turned around and extended a hand because they want to help people who are coming through right now what they got to the other side of. It’s absolutely amazing.

The number of people who go through one, or two, or three, or more types of trauma, and who come out stronger, and find a way to harness that warrior energy, and to do good in the world, that kind of miracle happens every single day. What I am helping my clients do, is I’m helping them get over it. I’m helping them move on from it. I don’t want my clients to be defining themselves by the divorce that they went through. I don’t want them to define their children as being children of divorce. I want them to move the heck on and detach from that descriptor as being part of their identity. I want them to be themselves.

Alright, www.coachnikkibruno.com. Of course, we’ll put www.coachnikkibruno.com in the show notes. People can swipe up now on their phone and find that link. Of course, they can go to our website www.insporising.com and find all the links, as well as to your podcast. I do want to point out that you are offering four free videos on reclaiming your life after divorce. It’s a free video series where you go a bit more in depth into these three pillars of the Epic Comeback framework, and they can go to your website www.coachnikkibruno.com in order to get those. It’ll pop-up. The magic of the pop-up. Everybody loves those pop-ups. I’ve got pop-ups on my website. Pop-up! Here you go. This is what I really want you to see.

Nikki, you’re doing good things in the world. Oh my gosh, you’re raising two amazing kids. You’re helping people. It’s a goldmine everywhere.

Thank you so much, David. This has been an awesome conversation and I love your podcast. I love what you do, so thank you so much.

thank you!