Mike Sherbakov is the Founder and CEO of The Greatness Foundation, which provides the resources for individuals and organizations to positively impact the world’s social and environmental challenges. Learning the importance of integrity, honor, and hard work during his time on active duty in the United States Marine Corps, Mike is fascinated with optimizing human potential. He holds degrees in kinesiology and psychology along with advanced certifications in fitness, nutrition, mindfulness, and yoga. Passionate about sustainable solutions to the world’s social and environmental challenges, Mike travels the world supporting purpose-driven organizations and causes, speaks on stages, consults for innovative start-ups, and collaborates with companies like Fitbit, lululemon athletica, and Equinox. Committed to learning, Mike is established as an expert in the areas of social entrepreneurship, philanthropy, and wellness. He inspires others to choose greatness as a leader in the community and passionately pursues humanitarian efforts around the globe.
In This Episode, You Will Learn:
- How Mike started The Greatness Foundation after a life-changing trip to Mexico.
- Ways the Greatness community serves on Mexico trips and gatherings in San Diego.
- What it looks like to live a great life.
Connect with Mike and The Greatness Foundation:
- Facebook (The Greatness Foundation)
- Facebook (Mike Sherbakov)
- Instagram (The Greatness Foundation)
- Instagram (Mike Sherbakov)
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Mike, thanks so much for taking time to hang with us today.
David, I’m grateful to be here. Thank you.
Tell us, what is the Greatness Foundation and why did you start it?
The Greatness Foundation is a global community creating a better world. The reason I started it actually, was because of a weekend that changed my life about seven years ago. I was driving in a van, coming back from Mexico and I just started crying my eyes out. What had happened over the two days leading up to that is, we left on a Friday morning at 7AM from San Diego and we went down to Mexico to this town called Maneadero, where families are living on dirt. They have palettes for walls and a tarp for a roof and in two and a half days, a group of us built a home for this family. On Sunday, we dedicated the home and the family walked in for the first time. I was having this experience but it didn’t really hit me until the drive home.
I’m sitting in the van and I’m crying my eyes out. I have this realization. I didn’t know why I was so emotional, but I just knew that I needed to incorporate more of that in my life. It made me question everything. It made me question how I had spent my weekends in all the years leading up to that. It made me question what I was spending my time doing and the kind of people I was spending my time with. So, I come back to San Diego after this experience and I just start putting a message out and saying, “Hey, I am committed to doing another project like this. Who wants to come with me?” One by one, people started signing up.
Fast-forward seven years, one person at a time, we’ve grown to a community of about 70,000 people. We’ve taken over a thousand people down to Mexico with us and we started doing our own house builds. We do those every few months. Now we have this community that has just grown from a desire to connect with people who are passionate about working on themselves and who are passionate about making a difference. People who are passionate about creating things that matter. That’s really how the community has grown. We started as a community first and then we built a bit of a business model around it and behind the community.
Okay, so seven years ago and you’re driving back by yourself? Are people seeing you cry? Take me into that moment. Are you having conversation with people or are you alone?
I’m alone. I’m an INTJ. A massive introvert. You too?
I’m an INTJ as well.
Oh, awesome. That’s why we connect so well. It’s interesting that we’re having this conversation because now that we’ve built this community and even tomorrow morning, we leave on another project down in Mexico and we are taking 60 people down with us. When people see me, whether I’m speaking or at an event or a weekend, they think, “Oh, my gosh. He must be an extrovert.” And the reality is, I recharge when I’m alone. I love reading, thinking and having time to myself.
So, I remember exactly where I was sitting. I was in a van and the director of our partner organization was driving and I was right behind her, sitting in the van. It was a total introspection moment. I think I even had my headphones in and I was looking out the window and just thinking about the weekend. I just had those thoughts of, “How do I want to spend my time? Who do I want to surround myself with? What kind of legacy and impact do I want to leave behind?” It was a very introspective process and I still do that all the time. I’m doing it constantly through yoga and through meditation. I always enjoy a bit of a reflective practice.
I had a super similar experience but it was 2004, coming back from India. I had taken a team over to India to visit an organization and do things and I just wasn’t the same. It literally changed my life. I also had to spend two weeks trying to decompress from all that I had seen and done. I resonate with that.
I assume you were working in a job or something when you started rallying people. Help me see the process of the Greatness Foundation coming to fruition.
I think an important bit of a backstory is, up until that point, I had checked a lot of the boxes. What I mean by that is, I had spent five years on active duty in the Marines. I joined the Marines directly out of high school. Right after I finished the Marines, I did my undergrad in Kinesiology and Psychology and I had started my first business, which was a fitness company because it’s kind of what I knew. My primary goal was revenue. I just knew I wanted to make an X amount in order to support my son and live here in San Diego. And I hit that goal. I’m one of those people, if I set a goal, I’m just going to do it. Yes, it was nice making a difference and helping people through the company but really it was revenue driven.
Up until this point, check, check, check. I’ve kind of done it. I have this successful business. I have these things in life and yet this emotional experience is happening because I need more of that in my life. So, I ended up selling that business to the first person I hired. It gave me a little bit of a runway. I started thinking about, “How do I incorporate more of that? How do I start to blend?” This is why I’m really passionate about entrepreneurship. I started asking myself, “How do I start to blend this idea of making a difference and making an impact, while at the same time, generating revenue and making an income doing it?” So, that’s the world I’ve really fallen in love with. Where those two things meet; income and impact.
It’s been certainly a gradual journey. As soon as I got back from Mexico, to answer your question directly, I put the message out that day and three months later, I took my first group down to Mexico. A lot of people say, “Yeah, yeah. Sign me up.” “Next!” “Me, me, me,” and people are raising their hand. To be honest, one of the things that surprised me is, I kind of had to get used to it and not take it personally anymore, but less than ten percent of the people that actually say they’re going to do it, actually come. Just like you went on this India trip, I don’t know how many people told you, “Yeah, I’m going to do it,” compared to how many actually did. We still deal with that of course, but what I realized is, I just wanted to surround myself with people. I wanted to create a community of people who are actually going to do it, not just raise their hand and say, “Next time.” “One day.” But actually, making it happen.
Three months later we went down. I didn’t even have enough people signed up, so I had to fund the rest of it myself. Then of course, the thoughts come up of, “Is this sustainable? Can I keep doing this?” But I just said, “You know what? I’m committed to this. I know this is my path. This is what I’m meant to do.” And then after about the second or third round, all of a sudden, we gain momentum. Now in 2019, we’re filling these things up months in advance.
I assume it’s a two and a half or three day trip, so the cost of the person signing up for this is X amount; and part of that amount is funding the home itself? Is that how it works?
Yeah, the way we do it is we offer a $333 donation to come join us for the weekend. That includes all the construction materials. It includes transportation down, accommodation, meals, everything. And we always offer a scholarship spot. That’s something that’s really important to me, because I don’t ever want finances to be an obstacle. And that’s actually not just for our non-profit trips, but any of our programs. If someone emails us and tells us, “Hey, I’m going through this big financial hurdle and this is an obstacle in front of me,” and we find that to be the case, we always offer scholarship spots. So, for instance this weekend, out of the 60 people that are coming with us, roughly ten percent – about six of them are coming on scholarship spots. At this point now, we have donors and we have a fund set aside, where we can provide people those scholarship spots.
Do you make those people work extra hard or anything?
What’s funny is, I find that the people that feel like they’re limited in their finances, they actually seem to be the most passionate. I keep coming back to this; the people who go through the most adversity are the strongest ones.
Absolutely. Alright, so you start building this community of people that initially is around building homes in Mexico. Did you start doing other things to get those people connected to one another or pour into them in some way?
We did and the natural thought was, “Well, we’re doing these every few months. How do we continue to keep everyone engaged? How do we create more opportunities for them to connect?” So, we started doing in-person events. We do these things called “Greatna’s Gatherings”, where people get to come together locally. We have some business partners; Kurt Walker out in Las Vegas and Levi in Utah. They’re creating these communities in those areas and we’re kind of building-up little chapters. These are free gatherings by the way. We wanted to offer opportunities for people to come together and connect with likeminded people who are also passionate about making a difference.
So, not only did we start to create free local community events, but then we started branching out and working with other impact partners in different parts of the world. We actually did a trip to Vietnam and Cambodia. We made a trip to India and to Nicaragua, where we supported with opening a vocational school there, two hours north of Managua. We also just did our first trip to Kenya last year and we’re working on a children’s home there. We just started branching out. As we started developing more of a name for ourselves, we would have potential partner organizations reach out to us and ask if we were interested in working with them. That’s kind of the progression of what we’ve been able to build.
How much of the stickiness of the organization, are those trips? Versus the local gatherings and some sort of online connection? Where’s the sticky factor?
I would say it’s a blend between the local in-person gatherings and the house builds that we do. The house builds seem to be this anchor and the fact that they’re full months and months in advance, people get really, really excited for them. What’s great and what I love seeing, is the kind of community that’s built beyond just us and the relationships that exist. We had our first house build marriage last year, where two people that met on a house build got married. We’ve had business partnerships form.
We’ve had all kinds of really cool things happen. I mean, it’s just natural, right? If you bring a lot of people who share the same values of wanting to make a difference and wanting to give back and you bring them together in a container-like weekend, where you’re serving. Not only do we build the homes, we feed 150 families, we visit kids at an orphanage and we spend the afternoon with them, we pick up donations and drop them off for migrant families and communities there. It’s a very impactful weekend and you can just imagine what bringing all those people together does. The community extends beyond just us and we really are doing our best. I like that you’re asking these questions, because our focus for 2019 is finding out how we can create even more community. We’re figuring out how we can create more events for our community to come and circle around, whether it’s offline or online.
How much of the program, when you’re in Mexico or on these other trips, is personal development related, versus serving in the community?
It’s 90/10; ninety serving and ten personal development. I sprinkle it in. The reason I do that is, I don’t ever want it to be off-putting. I know the transformation that happens just by being part of the experience. For instance, David, you’ll have to join us, but when you or someone that’s joining us comes down on Friday night, I lead a little bit of a facilitated discussion and we talk about purpose and passion and what we’re here to do. I have the feedback over this six and a half, seven year period and people are telling me that one conversation that I started, sparked them on this journey of following their purpose.
I’m a big believer that the quality of our life, depends upon the quality of the questions we ask ourselves. So, I simply ask the questions. We provide it in a container, where people feel safe to share. And whether it’s something they do right away that trip or immediately after, or maybe it’s six months or a year down the road, but the question has been asked and the seed is planted, “What is my purpose? What do I want to do in this lifetime that I’m blessed and grateful to have?” So, it’s about 90/10, service to personal development. And then on the flipside, as far as the programs we offer once they’re part of our community, those then would probably be flipped the other way; 90% of it is personal and business development and then 10% service. We tie service into everything we do though.
And so, the things that you’re offering once they get connected, are those the ways that you’re funding the organization? Is that how this is getting funded?
We have two arms to what we do. We have the non-profit and we have the revenue generating side. So, the non-profit is funded privately through both individual and corporate sponsors. For instance, there’s a great company in San Diego; Organifi. My friend, Drew Canole started it and it’s an amazing company. They sponsored the last house build that we did – the second one. I forgot to mention this to you but we used to build one home at a time. Now instead of building one home, we build two every time. It’s amazing, because we have this abundance of sponsors and we have both individual and corporate dollars coming through.
So, the non-profit is solely funded by individual and corporate sponsors that come in, and of course we funnel some of our proceeds from the revenue generating side, over to the non-profit as well. Now, the revenue generating side, the way that we make money is through our Masterminds and our retreats.
Alright, so you’re saying is 90+ percent of that side, is personal development and business development?
When did you start doing those types of events? You started doing the service projects in Mexico and then you started getting people connected. When did you go, “Oh, now would be a good opportunity to offer a Mastermind or some sort of retreat”? How did that come about?
We’ve been running the retreats for a while. I think it’s important to ask ourselves constantly, “What do I really want? What am I passionate about? What do I feel is mine here to do?” So, for me, I’ve always been passionate about travel. Last year, I was gone seven months out of the year. Not because I had to be, but because I wanted to be, with the kinds of projects and everything that we were doing.
Handstands around the world. Come on, I don’t even know if you’re posting it. Are you still posting it on Instagram? Because I found them on Tumblr everywhere.
Oh, yeah. Yeah, they’ll have to check out Instagram. In fact, I just came home from Australia a week ago and I have a really cool one in front of the Opera House that I’m going to post here soon.
How many handstands have you done in your entire life?
Oh, man. That’s a tough one. Including yoga classes?
We’re in the thousands.
Alright, keep going. My apologies. So, travel is a passion for you?
I’ve always been passionate about travel and I’ve been passionate about personal development. So, I’ve been running the retreats for about the same six years. We did these trips to Mexico and in the times that we weren’t doing them, I would take people to places like Bali, which is one of my favorite places in the world, and Columbia or Nicaragua. So, we now tie in personal development with the service work on these retreats. Then about two years ago is when we started building out more of the programs and the Mastermind.
Our flagship program is called “Passion to Profit”, and we help people do what we call, “Start a business that matters.” So, it’s literally taking their passions and creating a profit from it. It’s income and impact at the same time. We walk them through step by step, the ideation process. It’s a Silicon Valley approach and by that, I mean, it’s a lean start-up approach to starting a business from the ground up, going zero to launch. So, that’s what we’ve been doing for about two years now.
That’s great. Alright, I’ve interrogated you on how you’ve started this thing and it’s very fascinating. One of the reasons why I ask you all these questions and what might be fascinating for our listeners is, as I mentioned before we started recording, I’ve started churches. Basically, what you’re doing is starting a church, minus Jesus. You know what I mean? It’s a community of people who are wanting to make a difference in the world and who are bringing this sense of love and purpose and beauty. I’m just so impressed. It’s so fun to hear what you’re doing. It’s amazing.
So, you chose the word “Greatness”, I assume for a reason, way back, six or seven years ago. What does that word mean to you? Why is that so important to you?
As I mentioned, I studied Psychology and one of the people you learn about early in Psychology is a guy name Abraham Maslow, who talks about the hierarchy of needs. Most people are familiar with this idea but if you can imagine a triangle or pyramid, at the very bottom are basic needs; food, energy, water, shelter. Then you can start to move your way up; education and things like this. At the very top and at the peak of this pyramid or triangle is what he calls “Self-Actualization”. And he goes on to say that not only is there this desire, but he said there’s a need for self-actualization. He says, “What one can be, one must be.” And that has always resonated very deeply with me because it’s this idea that poet must make poetry, an artist must paint and a musician must make music.
We must do what we’re here to do. So, to me, greatness is actually getting clear on what we’re here to do and then doing that thing. Not doing what is on someone else’s to-do list, whether it’s our parents or someone we respect and admire. There are so many social constructs for us to try and follow and these narratives to play into and yet if we just get quiet enough and really honestly ask ourselves, “Who am I meant to be?” “What am I here to do?” And then passionately pursue that. Relentlessly, unapologetically, go after that. That to me is greatness. On a daily basis, it just aligns.
Most people are familiar with Tony Robbins but out of everything he shares, the most profound thing is three words. He says, “Progress equals happiness.” What I love about that is, it’s progress in the areas that are most meaningful to you. So, just like I shared, greatness to me is making progress in the area that’s meaningful to us in the pursuit of actualizing our potential. That to me is greatness.
And for everybody, there are so many different things that are meaningful to them. Whether it’s their family relationships or their physical bodies or making a difference in the world or even generating income. You know what I mean? Everybody’s got that different passion. Do you see that as you’re working with people? Does that purpose or passion shift over the course of their life? Does it shift through different seasons or do you see staying the same?
It’s always changing. It’s something I’m constantly checking in with in my own life. Even with everything that we’re doing at Greatness Foundation, this is my purpose right now and I have to be honest enough with myself, that if that changes at some point, I have to follow that. I love how you mention that everyone has a very unique pursuit and it’s not always about going out and changing the world.
I’ll give you a perfect example, my mom who I love and respect and who I think is the most amazing mom in the world – most of us feel that way about our parents. They have land up in Northern California and she takes care of the plants and the trees and the fruits and vegetables and then the animals. She has chickens, horses, goats and that sort of thing. She wakes up and she takes care of the animals and she takes care of the plants and she takes care of the land with so much love that you can feel how alive she is doing that. That’s all she wants to do and that is her purpose. That’s what she feels like she’s here to do. So, it doesn’t matter whether it’s taking care of the land or being a teacher or running a foundation or creating a podcast. Whatever that thing is, we just need to passionately pursue it.
Right, putting everything into it. How do you deal with people who say, “Man, I got bills to pay and I’m in a job where it is not passionate. It’s paying the bills but I’m dying here and I’m stuck. I’ve got a mortgage. I’ve got two car payments. I’ve got kids in college.” How do you deal with people in those situations?
I would say most people that I speak to are in that kind of a situation. In fact, just this morning spoke with someone who said that exact thing, “I’m passionate about these things but look, I’ve got a mortgage and I’ve got these payments and I’ve got to take care of this.” By all means, take care of them. The first thing in my opinion that needs to happen is, gratitude for that feeling. Gratitude that you recognize that something feels off. I call it a divine discomfort. It’s a mismatch between where we are in this moment and what we know we’re capable of. So, the fact that feeling exists and that you know you’re capable of more and the fact that you’re slightly discontent is great. It’s great because growth wouldn’t happen if you were totally content in just paying your bills and doing what you always do. You don’t ever grow that way. You just stay in what you’re doing for the rest of your life. So, number one is be grateful for it. And number two is, understand that it does not happen overnight.
It’s not about leaving all of that and jumping into this other thing. Some people have the luxury of being able to do that, whether they have savings or they have stability or some kind of net to catch them. Most people don’t, so it’s a gradual transition. For me to transition from what I was doing, the first business I started was all revenue driven. To now, what I’m creating; this blend of impact and income. It’s been a gradual process. It went from 99% one thing, 1% the other. To 90/10, 80/20, 70/30. So, I just slowly started to make the shift.
Yeah, that makes sense and I think that is so hard for people. Even the weekend house builds seems like a great stepping stone for people to get a taste of something powerful. Maybe building a house in Mexico isn’t their passion, but they get to be around other people that have those similar desires and they don’t have to go leave their job to do that. They can spend a weekend with you and have this transformational experience and have their minds expand a bit. Do you find that people are finding their passions and purposes in Mexico?
Oh, yeah and I talk about this when we do our conversation on Friday. Like you said, it’s not about building homes. It’s not even about doing projects with the Greatness Foundation. It’s about having an experience that transforms you and awakens something inside of you. It’s about having an experience that inspires you to go out and create what’s yours to create. We’re busy. We have responsibilities. We have commitments. But at the very least, everyone can do something. So, even if you can’t give up two and a half days to come on a trip to Mexico, you can give up and hour to go to a local convalescent home. You can give up an hour a month to volunteer your time. Or if you can’t do an hour a month, you can do an hour every quarter. Do something that puts you in that world and that gives you that experience. Do something that surrounds you with those kinds of people, in those kinds of conversations.
Marcus Aurelius is one of my favorite people in history, he’s a famous Roman philosopher and emperor and he has so many powerful quotes, but one of them that’s always stuck with me is, “The soul becomes dyed with the color of it’s thoughts.” And for me, I’m always asking myself, “What am I thinking about?” “What kinds of things am I marinating my mind in?” And so, just by putting yourself in environments where you’re thinking about impact and contribution or whatever’s important to you, that alone changes your soul. Your soul changes colors based on the types of things you’re putting in your mind.
I see younger people, let’s say they are in their teens and twenties, they have this innate passion to make a difference in the world. Then I see people that are in their late forties, fifties or sixties, who have some sort of painful encounter in life that seems to shift their thinking about the world in a broader perspective. That’s my experience at least and I think we all have different painful experiences at different ages, but mid-life, there’s something that hits us like, “Oh, I’ve checked all the boxes. I’ve done all the things that I’m supposed to. I’ve had the family,” or whatever. Are you finding that in those two age groups? Help me see what you’re seeing in all these thousands of people that you’re interfacing with.
I love how you address the younger population because our focus for 2019 on the non-profit side is to actually to bring this kind of education; mindfulness, purpose, entrepreneurship, to high schools. We already have verbal commitments. This is a very new program. We’re calling it the “Do Great Things Project”. Everything we’re teaching, we’ve been teaching to adults. For instance, the experience of the weekend in Mexico and the kinds of things we talk about. The kids may not be able to come with us, some of them do, but we’re teaching that to them at the high school level. It’s the kinds of classes I wish I had and everyone that we talk to about this program goes, “Oh, my gosh. I wish I had that class.” We’re asking the questions about purpose, mindfulness and entrepreneurship. So, yes, to that. I think it’s a more broad conversation. It’s a more of a mainstream conversation that’s happening now.
This is why love formats like this; podcasts, videos, content, books, Netflix documentaries. We have so many resources to access and more people are talking about it. What I love is people who have platforms. These celebrities in music and actors and actresses and people are talking about it more. And so, just by starting the conversation, more people are starting to think about it.
Then to your second point, there is unfortunately a bit of this older population that’s very rigid in their thinking. They may have been jaded. They’ve almost been hardened by the world in some way. Maybe they tried pursuing their passion at one point and it didn’t work out and they say, “Well, that’s not meant to be.” But here’s the unfortunate reality David, and if there’s a take-home message for this entire conversation, it’s this; Dr. Bronnie Ware, studied patients in the last eight weeks of life. She’s an Australian palliative care nurse. I’ve given many talks on stages about this particular topic. She studied hundreds of patients in their last eight weeks of life and she asked them, “What are your biggest regrets?” The number one regret of people that are on their death bed, where a tremendous amount of clarity, wisdom and truth comes from – the number one regret was, “I wish I had the courage to live a life true to myself, not the life others expected of me.”
Sometimes an older population is a little bit hardened and jaded. But guess what? Unfortunately, they’re ending up on their deathbed, wishing they had the courage to live a life true to themselves. I’m not waiting until my deathbed to wish that I had lived life differently. I’m doing it right now and hopefully, through what we’re creating at the Greatness Foundation and through conversations like this, we’re showing other people, “Hey, do not wait until your death bed because that would be the worst feeling in the world.” To be there thinking and wishing you had done something different. I’m going to pursue it now. It doesn’t matter how many times I fall down. I’m following this journey that’s mine to follow.
I love it. My kids are 19 and 16 now, but they’ve both been to India and served in remote villages. They’ve been to Nicaragua, Dominican Republic and Mexico; just because we wanted them to be exposed to another way of living other than Orange County, California. We wanted them to be exposed to the challenges of the world and to learn how they can make a difference not just here, but around the globe. We wanted to expand their thinking. Kids, want that. They’re ready for it. They’re excited about those opportunities. I think you’ll have huge success in the high schools that you go into.
Thanks David, you and I are like the same person. My son is 14 and he’s been on every single house build we’ve done. Every three months for the last seven years and he’s come to Vietnam, Cambodia and Nicaragua. Just like with adults, we don’t know the impact it’s going to have. We just know that it’s planting a seed. So, however it shows up in his life, I just know he’s going to be a better human being for having those experiences. You live in Orange County; I live in San Diego. We live these really blessed lives. It’s not even the 1%. It’s the 1% of the 1% of people that get to experience life like this. I believe it’s not ours to take for granted. I believe we are blessed with these resources in order to share them with others. This is not for me to hold onto and say, “Ah, it’s just mine.” No, I have a platform. I have a podcast. We have a community. I’m going to put that to use. I’m going to put it to work and share a message.
Alright, so I guess people could go to Mexico with you no matter where they live. They could fly into San Diego and go with you.
Out of the 60 people, ten of them are flying in and two or three are flying internationally. Yeah, people come from all over all the time.
Out of control. What’s the best way for people to get in contact with you? Obviously, we’ll put all your websites and social media in the show notes, but what would be the best next step for them?
If they’re interested in anything we’re doing at Greatness Foundation, just Google “Greatness Foundation” or go to www.greatness.ngo or www.thegreatnessfoundation.com. Any of those are great. I post a lot of stories on my personal Instagram and that’s @MikeSherbakov. I don’t do that many post-posts, but as far as the stories go, I like to share. I mean, even this weekend I’ll probably have full stories. I like that story feature because people get to just follow along on what’s happening in real time. So, that’s exciting. That’s probably the best way. They can always contact me through the website as well.
And what’s amazing is, for $333, you’re basically getting to help build a house for somebody who desperately needs one and you’re getting a transformational experience. That is priceless. That’s awesome.
Thanks David, and again, it can also be free. If someone that’s listening or watching says, “Oh, my gosh. I really want to go. Finances are an obstacle,” email me and you’re coming for free. We’ll make that happen. So, there’s really nothing stopping anyone from an experience like this other than themselves. Other than them saying, “One day.” My question is, “Are you going to keep saying ‘One day’ or are you going to make it day one?”
I love it. Mike, thank you so much. I love what you guys are doing. I’m inspired. I want to learn more. I’m going to keep picking your brain and we’ll definitely point people toward the Mexico trip as a great first step.
Amazing. Thanks, so much David. Appreciate your time.